Good. They should be held accountable. Out of all members of society, one would think that religious leaders would be at the fore front of protecting children. It seems they were at the fore front of harming children and still are.
Doubting Bro
JoinedPosts by Doubting Bro
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4
Kansas City Bishop Indicted on Child Endangerment Charge
by blondie inas catholic groups keep working to set legal precedents regarding religious leaders being required to report child abuse, those hurt by the wts can benefit by using those laws.. http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/14/justice/catholic-bishop-indicted/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn.
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C.O. Jonsson's response to Watchtower's latest 607 articles
by wannabefree inhttp://kristenfrihet.se/vtsvar/vtsvar1.pdf.
(thanks to augustin for bringing this to our attention in another thread.
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Doubting Bro
Quendi - I agree with your point. Taking Daniel 4 and giving it a minor and major application is pure creative thinking. However, I think its much easier to argue that 1914 means nothing because Jerusalem wasn't destroyed in 607 (FACT) verses saying that Daniel 4 doesnt' have a major application that stretches 2,520 years into our time (theological interpretation).
Putting them together is certainly more powerful if the person believes 607/1914 because of the WTS interpretation of Daniel, but I know for me, I always believed Daniel to have the "major" application because I believed 607. Without 607, I quickly realized that the explaination of Daniel was actually given by Daniel himself and that it was a huge stretch to think he meant anything more than he explained. Interestingly enough, when Daniel was talking about the future, he actually said so. So why didn't he say so when explaining the tree dream?
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For those still "in" the W.T , a Moral Question.
by wobble infor those who are still in the jw/wt religion for whatever reason , and to whatever extent, i ask :.
how high would you rate your moral standards ?.
where do you stand on telling lies, upholding truth, deceiving others etc ?.
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Doubting Bro
I'll answer but would like to see your answers as well:
How high would you rate your moral standards ? I do not see myself as morally superior to others. How do you define morals? Are they based on rules from holy writings, society norms or do you see them as a code which a person decides to live by? I obey the rules of the land, try to treat others the way I wish to be treated, love my family and am loyal to my wife. I'm certainly not perfect but try to "do the right thing". I'm not always successful.
Where do you stand on telling lies, upholding truth, deceiving others etc ? I try to be honest and recognize there are times when that doesn't happen. Upholding truth? What is truth? Seriously, the 2 things I know to be true are that 1) I'm going to die and 2) I have to pay taxes. Everything else is relative truth.
Does the end justify the means ? Yes in some cases. Don't kid yourself. Do you think the politicians are looking out for you? Do you think your company gives a damn about you? Everyone is expendable and if you don't look out for yourself, no one else will.
Where do you stand on associating with people who do not act in a way you approve ? I don't judge how others act as long as they don't hurt their fellow man.
How do you feel about how the world of normal people views you ? Don't care. I care about how my immediate family views me. I'd like to be known as a great guy, but I've learned that seeking others approval just sucks your soul. Life is too short to be concerned about that.
How do you draw the line on what you will not do at the bidding of the WT ? I do not give them money and if they forced tithing then I would leave. If blood became an issue for my family, I would leave. Basically, I go to meetings to appease my wife. I make an appearance in service every now and then. Otherwise, I don't do the the bidding of the WT.
What is personal integrity ? That's a difficult question. What was important at one point is not important now.
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C.O. Jonsson's response to Watchtower's latest 607 articles
by wannabefree inhttp://kristenfrihet.se/vtsvar/vtsvar1.pdf.
(thanks to augustin for bringing this to our attention in another thread.
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Doubting Bro
Sorry P Sac! I posted right after reading the article without reading the other comments!!
Right, the appointment is where they get their "authority" from. Jesus as usual is just a sidebar.
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C.O. Jonsson's response to Watchtower's latest 607 articles
by wannabefree inhttp://kristenfrihet.se/vtsvar/vtsvar1.pdf.
(thanks to augustin for bringing this to our attention in another thread.
).
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Doubting Bro
Very well written and easy to read article. Although I know the WTS to be dishonest, to be so blatantly dishonest is a little stunning. It actually makes me angry that I actually believed this stuff at one point not so long ago. There are lots of reasons to recognize that there is no way the WTS is God's sole channel of communication on earth. False prophesy, lack of love, etc. But, I think this sort of dishonesty and selective quoting is by far the biggest indicator that they have no divine backing.
This is where they always get themselves in trouble. Rather than saying that God revealed this date to them and leave it at that, they try to "prove" it using secular sources and changing a verse in their bible to match their teaching. That someone can deconstruct their argument so thoroughly using the same source they are makes them look much worse. Rather than being misguided, they are shown to be devious.
They know that the 607 date must be defended at all costs. Here's the crazy thing, if you used the real date and pushed their crazy 2520 year theory out another 20 years, that would put Jesus coming to power in 1934 with their "selection" in 1938. Add a 80 year "generation" and you get 2014. I wonder why they didn't do that back in 1995? Instead, they changed the definition 3 of what a generation is 3 times to cover up the obvious.
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C.O. Jonsson's response to Watchtower's latest 607 articles
by wannabefree inhttp://kristenfrihet.se/vtsvar/vtsvar1.pdf.
(thanks to augustin for bringing this to our attention in another thread.
).
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Doubting Bro
marking for later
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Victoria, Australia: Here is what JWs didn't do--fill out the "Working With Children" Application Form
by AndersonsInfo inhere is a link to a .pdf version of the working with children (wwc) application form that steven unthank has put on his website.
very important reading material to understand the wwc act and to see the questions asked to those who wanted to comply (or not to comply) with the act.
the download link is: http://workingwithchildrencheck.wordpress.com/.
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Doubting Bro
wbf - sorry for taking your thought. Our postings crossed. I agree with you 100%
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Victoria, Australia: Here is what JWs didn't do--fill out the "Working With Children" Application Form
by AndersonsInfo inhere is a link to a .pdf version of the working with children (wwc) application form that steven unthank has put on his website.
very important reading material to understand the wwc act and to see the questions asked to those who wanted to comply (or not to comply) with the act.
the download link is: http://workingwithchildrencheck.wordpress.com/.
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Doubting Bro
I think his theory is that since all baptized JWs are "ordained ministers" and volunteers who go door to door to preach thus having direct contact with a child (or at least the possiblity of such contact) then everyone who goes in service should apply.
That differs from other religious organizations whose members are not considered "ordained ministers" (WTS own description of baptized JWS) and who do not engage in preaching from door to door.
The most recent instructions I saw was that the WTS wants their elders to comply. It's obvious from the link above that the law clearly applies to them and I could see where it would apply to MS as well since they could be placed in a position of oversight of a child (cleaning the hall, FS groups, etc). I know here in the US, the WTS has argued sucessfully that clergy privilege laws apply to JW elders so I don't see how legally you could say they aren't ministers.
I think having all comply is probably a stretch. They'll likely argue that the rank and file go out strictly on their own accord and have no direct appointment from the WTS.
I can't believe the Legal department hasn't already gotten the WTS to lay off the "ordained ministers" title applying to all JWs. I'll bet if Unthank wins, they'll drop it.
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Doubting Bro
When I joined, I was having questions about the org. I always wondered why "Doubting" Thomas could get away with asking Jesus to prove who he was after the resurrection yet I couldn't ask for the same level of proof from an organization that was supposed to be just a group of God's servants. So, instead of using my real first name (because I'm scared of being outed) I replaced with my KH first name (Bro - brother).
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It's BACK - the 2011 Global Survey of JWs!!
by cedars ini'm pleased to announce that despite some considerable teething troubles (of which many of you will be aware!
), the 2011 survey of jws is back on the road!
there is no need for any donations, so none will be asked for in any way, shape or form.
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Doubting Bro
Here's the thing that's most interesting to me. There is a "spiritually strong" congregation on the surface that is apostate. Granted, you're likely of that mindset if you've found the survey but stunning nonetheless:
94 "active"
9 elders, 17 MS, 9 reg pioneers and even 1 MTS grad
How many congregations would love to have stats like that? Impressive indeed.
What I pull away from this is that there may be a lot more folks like me ("active" but unbelieving) than I think.
Very encouraging brother!!!